Xovergen Supreme Tactical Commander Grand Patriot Preorder Open at BBTS

Yea, forget it.

I'm gonna see if my former room mate wants to split a set, otherwise, never mind.

Too expensive! I'm still thinking about the Anhiilator, and this costs about the same if it was only one, and really isn't that great to get 2 of them, that tie 1 by a set of 2, will make them lost a lot of clients... anyways, I wasn't one of them

If someone only wants the Prime and wants to split the set, I only want th egreen one.

Wanna go halfsies?

Mkall wrote:If someone only wants the Prime and wants to split the set, I only want th egreen one.

Wanna go halfsies?

PM sent

What a joke.

screw it, they look cool. Pre-ordered. fingers crossed they dont get held up at customs like my last BBTS package.

Got 2 of the Crossfire kits arriving this week, soon as they get sold on ebay i can actually afford these. Must be karma

i cant believe this thing is only 12.6 in long and 7.5in high...how tall is his alt mode? (i will also go halves on one of these, but also only want the green one)

Mkall wrote:If someone only wants the Prime and wants to split the set, I only want th egreen one.

Wanna go halfsies?

Same here, if anyone just wants the red and blue version I'd be willing to split a set.

Let's think this through as if we were Xovergen. This is there first product to be mass produced, so they need it to make money. How better to do that than make people buy two of them. This is pretty extreme, and has solidified my decision to not get them.

I was just about to have a look at Kapow Toys, since I got their email stating that they have it for pre-order on their site also, just when I saw the price here mentioned to be $ 180 ???????

What the... my wallet is like Megatron being sucked by Unicron into oblivion!

For that money I would rather order another MP Rodimus at Robotkingdom! Or the new 2010 Reissue of Prime, but no way I am ever going to pay up that price what they are asking!

Counterpunch wrote:What a joke.

And not even a funny one. I hope they are only going to produce as many sets as there are pre-orders, cause at that price they are not going to sell too many after that. That would be crazy even for an established company like FP.

Wow! Skip for better 3rd party toys and save for others.

I was gonna get one... but not now. As Counterpunch said, what a joke. And it's on them, too. Come on Protector.

Let's remember that this is BBTS's decision to sell them as a pair, not XOvergen.

Lay the blame where it should be

I find it funny that BBTS is worried about favourites(seemingly regarding people getting traditional over the green) and yet most of the requests for going halfsies in this thread seems to be people wanting the green and not red/blue.

Also, preordered mine(green for me, R/B for my old roomie).

Well thank you BBTS. Now I can't buy one even if I wanted.

This is so tempting but I think I will have to wait for a review first.

That's just not going to work....it's a set up for failure...if I were xovirgin I'd make sure bbts was happy selling them separate.

Midnight_Fox wrote:I find it funny that BBTS is worried about favourites(seemingly regarding people getting traditional over the green) and yet most of the requests for going halfsies in this thread seems to be people wanting the green and not red/blue.

I have a feeling if they sold them on their own that they would be moving numbers closer to equal than they think.

To be fair Blurrz,

I doubt many would really balk at the price, personally I have no issue dropping $90-odd for this guy. The issue is more that BBTS isn't giving the option for buying a single piece and many don't want or need both editions.

In my case I like the "Joe" one and would go for it simply on the fact I'm in the small group that would welcome a split Joe/TF line. On the other hand, the "prime" version just doesn't come off as interesting enough to warrant buying both.

So the target audience is the Scrooge McDuck money pit swimming niche market... hmm, maybe after I'm done eradicating world hunger. Until then, a major goes without saying...

I'll have to wait to see the individual green figure go on sale.

amcgrath929 wrote:Well thank you BBTS. Now I can't buy one even if I wanted.

I guess you can also thank Robot Kingdom since they are also only selling them as a set.

yeah its not bbts or robot kingdom its definately xovergen.. so now if people buy the set put OP on ebay eventually the individual price of the green one will shoot up... but then again people can make optimus a custom nemesis prime repaint ....

Blurrz wrote:Sadly, you've got to pay to play, and when it comes to third party figures making their own toys, this price is just the premium. Why is Xovergen being bashed, when let's say.. FansProject's Defender is 90+, iGear's Arcee is over a hundy, the aforementioned Impossible Toy Arcee mold is $70 and that's shoddy in size. MMC's stuff ranges in the $90, and people are sucking up HeadRobot's and CrazyDevy's small add-ons for #30. Look, shit's not going to change overnight. A third party's out to make profit, and especially when one's new on the scene, they need to make $$$ so the rest of the projects can be funded.

Through some drama in the MMC corporation, Xovergen was created. Needless to say, Xovergen's products are going to be top quality. Having talked several times with people who've actually seen STCP in person, it's the robot mode is the size of Classics Prime, and the trailer makes it even a bit bigger.

Some give the demeanor on other third parties as "Oh but they should be more like FansProject!" - Bullfricking crap. FansProject took 2-3 years to establish themselves and they weren't perfect with half of their products being released. A rookie QB isn't going to win the Superbowl. A first time third party isn't going to make Transforming gold. Be patient.

If you're on the fence with this figure, just wait a bit. It's not going to go anywhere soon, you'll get alot of insight from fellow collectors who are nabbing this, and you might run into a sale down the road.

Pay to play is a phrase that I have long been a supporter of. I think it's the truth.

I think though, that things have changed over the past two years and it simply can't be a blanket defense anymore. The whole reason that phrase came around was because of the truly limited nature of certain collectables that were limited because of their intent...one time productions at BotCon, limited promotions in Japan, figures long gone from the public eye.

It was never meant to be a justification for the bar to be set high in the first place. It was more of a kick in the ass to avoid waiting for those high prices to come around.

The community and collectors do not need to support the research and development costs of small toy companies. This holds especially true for their first release or so when we have no idea if they will provide good or responsible product.

The issue becomes more complicated when we start to learn more about this 3rd party market and its practices. That iGear Arcee? It’s a $55 toy. iGear has set its price higher. That’s fine, that’s their decision. But it should make you look at this stuff a bit harder. Why are you paying $100+ for the iGear Arcee when FansProject can provide Explorer for $55? Pay for quality, pay for truly limited availability, and question when it appears you are paying a flat mark-up.

We don’t know what we’re paying for with this Tactical Commander figure. It’s asking a very high entry price to the ‘Uncertainty Ride’. Factor in that the market is probably one or two figures away from being completely flooded with questionably high-end 3rd party transformer toys and ask yourself if there’s really any chance that limited availability is going to strike. It’s not like these companies who produce these toys for around $20 a pop, sell them to retailers for $50 a pop, which then turn around and sell them to you for $100+ a pop have any reason to not go back to the well of money.

So, I think the asking price of $180 for a set of these things, with limited pictures, no history to back them up, is a bit much. I think the market for high end TF Collectable stuff is due for a hard correction soon. There is too much, at too significant a cost, in too short a time for it to sustain itself. Factor in that Has/Tak has been doing some active undercutting of these companies (look at Classics Wreck-Gar) and I have a suspicion that the 3rd party fad is going to shake the money tree too hard this coming year.

Counterpunch wrote:So, I think the asking price of $180 for a set of these things, with limited pictures, no history to back them up, is a bit much. I think the market for high end TF Collectable stuff is due for a hard correction soon. There is too much, at too significant a cost, in too short a time for it to sustain itself. Factor in that Has/Tak has been doing some active undercutting of these companies (look at Classics Wreck-Gar) and I have a suspicion that the 3rd party fad is going to shake the money tree too hard this coming year.

Sadly, I have to agree with you. This ridiculously priced forced two pack appears to have crossed the line for me. It's well known that I'm both an Optimus Prime and 3rd Party collector but there's nothing here. It's based on a rejected Don Figueroa sketch of Optimus crossed with G.I.Joes Rolling Thunder whipped together to look like neither. The pics show you nothing of the robot mode capabilities other than its shoulders can slump forward slightly and it can stand. Great. And it ships in the next 2 weeks so everybody who wants it suddenly has to scrounge up a spare $200 at Christmas time.

I do also have to agree that this may be the final year of the large 3rd Party bubble. I'm a massive proponent of Fans Project but for the upcoming year they have shown me nothing I'm interested in. What we've seen of Causailty, the Shadow Scythe, the blacked out images of Glacialbot, none of it seems worth buying. iGear has the unused Alternator Bumblebee coming up. Huge surprise they're stealing an actual Has/Tak design again. I bought the Drift kit from Master Collector just before Hasbro announced they had Drift coming up so when MC came out with a kit for Wheeljack I passed. I was fine with E Downshift and Hasbro was probably going to make one anyway and lo and behold! It should be in our hands before Easter. Plus as a fandom we are getting very picky. You can't go into a thread and mention the Protector without people who haven't seen it in person harping about its neck. Would it even have been an issue as few as 2 years ago? I don't think so.

Basically, the 3rd Party company as a concept may be on it's last legs. The rising prices, the variety of random things available, the fact that Hasbro is actually giving us what we want for now. Hell, Hasbro putting out their own official G1 Arcee would render a half dozen kits from the past decade useless. I just hope we get the Fans Project notBroadside first.

Of course, I could be wrong.

$90 absolutely, $180.00 no go.

Hey look folks,

Sorry I'm late, but I have neeeeeever seen this one before so I gotta ask, is this "an" Optimus Prime?


If so he does look like that unused GI Joe vehicle/Optimus Prime mash-up Don Figueora created years ago

FP didn't take years to ramp up. They made a few quality items before people really latched onto them with City Commander. Not fighting or arguing, just stating facts. By the by, this isn't just BBTS selling as a set, it's Robot Kingdom as well. So no, I don't believe it's BBTS mandating here. Being forced to buy a pair is rubbish. Paying to play doesn't really factor into it when you are forced to buy the item twice in only one deco you fancy. No one else has been that brazen thus far. Except perhaps Crazy Devy and their pricing madness.

trence5 wrote:Hey look folks,

Sorry I'm late, but I have neeeeeever seen this one before so I gotta ask, is this "an" Optimus Prime?


If so he does look like that unused GI Joe vehicle/Optimus Prime mash-up Don Figueora created years ago

Yes that is where the inspiration for this figure comes from.

I don't really see a problem with pricing to break even or even fund future projects (as long as they actually happen). They put a lot of hard work into these things and deserve some return. Even the ones based off unused designs impress me for coming from a single piece of art with no real information of the in between, or in some cases the end product.

Still, I agree the bubble is likely to burst. You have to wonder how many are just using the $80+ mark to see if they can? (I'm looking at you, iGear). Some cases of response are already out there. I've seen a lot of smaller items at more reasonable prices hitting the big leagues. CorbotV's lovely War Axe, Headrobots is staying 30 and under, even FansProject's Sidearm and CC gun (what? It still counts as embellishing existing toys).

Overall, I expect FansProject & others will likely ride out unscathed. Or rather, they had better; a genuine 3rd party presence must survive. What do you think brought about this little renaissance from HasTak? You think they're going to continue on this level if 3rd parties suddenly died back to non-entities? The only weapon Hasbro has really taken from them is giving neglected characters proper toys. Besides that, they'll always have a role with unused toy/character designs, additions to existing toys, and good old additional weapons.

As for Xovergen; I've gone back and forth on preordering this set a dozen times. It is an interesting design. More so, since I'm not a Joe fan and couldn't care less about accuracy. I'm really drawn to the green version as a unique character. But the price and forced pairing is just wrong, especially on their first product, with the preorder set up oddly fast to release, almost like when movie studios deny reviewers early showings.

Flux Convoy wrote:FP didn't take years to ramp up. They made a few quality items before people really latched onto them with City Commander. Not fighting or arguing, just stating facts. By the by, this isn't just BBTS selling as a set, it's Robot Kingdom as well. So no, I don't believe it's BBTS mandating here.

Though another online seller Kapow Toys is selling each one seperately, so I'm still not sure.

Either way if it's mandated or not, selling them as a pair is rubbish.

I believe Xovergen has fallen victim to what I call the BBTS pricing effect.
Their website describes them as being two separate sets an that the green one is an exclusive, eg limited.
BBTS noticed that there is a high demand to have this green one so they decided to only sell it in a two-pack set, and now other stores will do the same, just like when BBTS decided that the FansProject Cliffjumper upgrade set should cost 150 instead of the 30 set by FansProject.

Dead Metal wrote:I believe Xovergen has fallen victim to what I call the BBTS pricing effect.
Their website describes them as being two separate sets an that the green one is an exclusive, eg limited.
BBTS noticed that there is a high demand to have this green one so they decided to only sell it in a two-pack set, and now other stores will do the same, just like when BBTS decided that the FansProject Cliffjumper upgrade set should cost 150 instead of the 30 set by FansProject.

Are you sure BBTS sold the Cliffjumper upgrade as a retail product? I know they've had a few go through their vintage dept, but that was long after the initial release and the secondary market value had already set in.

Yes they did, they had pre-orders for it.
They also put up that ridicules high price after 7 pre-production pre-assembled special editions in collectors boxes where sold on ebay to help finance the final run.
That's also why FP would only supply the City Commander if the store in question actually sold it at the recommended price point.

Dead Metal wrote:Yes they did, they had pre-orders for it.
They also put up that ridicules high price after 7 pre-production pre-assembled special editions in collectors boxes where sold on ebay to help finance the final run.
That's also why FP would only supply the City Commander if the store in question actually sold it at the recommended price point.

Interesting.

LOST Cybertronian wrote:

trence5 wrote:Hey look folks,

Sorry I'm late, but I have neeeeeever seen this one before so I gotta ask, is this "an" Optimus Prime?


If so he does look like that unused GI Joe vehicle/Optimus Prime mash-up Don Figueora created years ago

Yes that is where the inspiration for this figure comes from.

Wow, I'm really a geek aren't I?

Dead Metal wrote:I believe Xovergen has fallen victim to what I call the BBTS pricing effect.
Their website describes them as being two separate sets an that the green one is an exclusive, eg limited.
BBTS noticed that there is a high demand to have this green one so they decided to only sell it in a two-pack set, and now other stores will do the same, just like when BBTS decided that the FansProject Cliffjumper upgrade set should cost 150 instead of the 30 set by FansProject.

BBTS has updated the preorder page that the two pack is entirely "due to case pack requirements from manufacturer". Oh, fyi, and it's SUPER limited. Which is funny because this pre-order is still open while the mass produced Windcharger is sold-out because I wasn't fast enough.

Requiem Prime wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:I believe Xovergen has fallen victim to what I call the BBTS pricing effect.
Their website describes them as being two separate sets an that the green one is an exclusive, eg limited.
BBTS noticed that there is a high demand to have this green one so they decided to only sell it in a two-pack set, and now other stores will do the same, just like when BBTS decided that the FansProject Cliffjumper upgrade set should cost 150 instead of the 30 set by FansProject.

BBTS has updated the preorder page that the two pack is entirely "due to case pack requirements from manufacturer". Oh, fyi, and it's SUPER limited. Which is funny because this pre-order is still open while the mass produced Windcharger is sold-out because I wasn't fast enough.

Dude BBTS is lying, the makers themselves list the two figures as completely separate sets, even stating that the green one is the more limited version.
BBTS lied back with the Cliff upgrade justifying the $150 as being due to the high cost of getting it and the limited nature, just to have FP reveal that the set was supposed to be sold at $30, this included the retailer expenses and profit!
We already know of one store that sells them as single sets.

Dead Metal wrote:

Requiem Prime wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:I believe Xovergen has fallen victim to what I call the BBTS pricing effect.
Their website describes them as being two separate sets an that the green one is an exclusive, eg limited.
BBTS noticed that there is a high demand to have this green one so they decided to only sell it in a two-pack set, and now other stores will do the same, just like when BBTS decided that the FansProject Cliffjumper upgrade set should cost 150 instead of the 30 set by FansProject.

BBTS has updated the preorder page that the two pack is entirely "due to case pack requirements from manufacturer". Oh, fyi, and it's SUPER limited. Which is funny because this pre-order is still open while the mass produced Windcharger is sold-out because I wasn't fast enough.

Dude BBTS is lying, the makers themselves list the two figures as completely separate sets, even stating that the green one is the more limited version.
BBTS lied back with the Cliff upgrade justifying the $150 as being due to the high cost of getting it and the limited nature, just to have FP reveal that the set was supposed to be sold at $30, this included the retailer expenses and profit!
We already know of one store that sells them as single sets.

Damn, my sarcasm must suck. Anyhoo, if you were referring to Kapow Toys, I found their home page has been hacked by some jerk. The links in this forum to the actual toys are still fine, but I don't think I'm brave enough to register with them right now.

Requiem Prime wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:

Requiem Prime wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:I believe Xovergen has fallen victim to what I call the BBTS pricing effect.
Their website describes them as being two separate sets an that the green one is an exclusive, eg limited.
BBTS noticed that there is a high demand to have this green one so they decided to only sell it in a two-pack set, and now other stores will do the same, just like when BBTS decided that the FansProject Cliffjumper upgrade set should cost 150 instead of the 30 set by FansProject.

BBTS has updated the preorder page that the two pack is entirely "due to case pack requirements from manufacturer". Oh, fyi, and it's SUPER limited. Which is funny because this pre-order is still open while the mass produced Windcharger is sold-out because I wasn't fast enough.

Dude BBTS is lying, the makers themselves list the two figures as completely separate sets, even stating that the green one is the more limited version.
BBTS lied back with the Cliff upgrade justifying the $150 as being due to the high cost of getting it and the limited nature, just to have FP reveal that the set was supposed to be sold at $30, this included the retailer expenses and profit!
We already know of one store that sells them as single sets.

Damn, my sarcasm must suck. Anyhoo, if you were referring to Kapow Toys, I found their home page has been hacked by some jerk. The links in this forum to the actual toys are still fine, but I don't think I'm brave enough to register with them right now.

Oh yes sarcasm over the internet generally sucks, especially if the subject has been taking as much caffeine as me

3rd party toy maker Xovergen has dropped by and updated us with some news images of upcoming Supreme Tactical Commander Grand Patriot.
These images show the box design of the toy, comic, box size comparison as well as toy size comparison.

Check out the images below:

























Seibertron, Ultimate Transformers Resource!

I'm glad they painted those translucent guns, looks much better.

So why cant those 2 SEPARATE boxes be sold SEPARATELY?

regardless, I cant wait to see if they are worth it.

kapow toys had these guys seperate and combined for preorder. Ive ordered both (by choice) but may sell one or keep it MISB. Dont know the score with BBTS, but theyre the only company ive ever had issue with for pricing and delivery as an international customer, their 'only available in two pack deal' was bull. if kapow toys (a much smaller company) was getting enough figures to go seperately, then im pretty sure bbts would. Maybe its a tactic to make sure all the packs sell and they arent left with an abundance of one colour. Either way Kapow has my respect, theyve been utterly fantastic.

the figures themselves look decent, im paranoid that the plastic doesnt look too sturdy (i dont know why) but im looking forward to gettin these and FP protector in the next few weeks. And seconded about the guns, much sleeker now they arent flourescent lol

90 - 180 bucks for a MINOR step up from the classics...pass. I was really interested in the green one, but they really aren't that special.

I'm not even sure why it's no go sign for me for this set. Even RK willing to sell separately for reasonable price but it probably best to wait for the review up before making any hash decisions.

if they were bigger i could see why every one is going crazy for this but as of now i dont really see what the big deal is