Megatron holds neighbourhood in fear!

The question is why.

They guy cracked after having a brutal home invasion and being treated like crap.

what the hell??? this is going to make it that much harder to get a G1 Megs shipped to me. I wonder if the guy knew that you could get a real handgun for the price of a G1 Megatron nowadays.

Mason said charges are pending. “We’re going to be looking at some weapon offences at the very least, but we’ll have to give it some time to get to the bottom of it.”

Weapon offences? Wha? Criminal possession of Megatron?

Mason said the response level was reasonable...

Oh yes, very reasonable. Tactical officers, body armour, submachine guns, sniper rifles, a police dog and the mobile command centre.

I love being a news mod at times like this. And damn do we need a "LULZ" section for news.

hmmm...it'd be a whole lot different story if the guy had G2 megatron.

astig wrote:hmmm...it'd be a whole lot different story if the guy had G2 megatron.

Man holds community in fear with bright green and purple tank!

Starfield wrote:

Mason said charges are pending. “We’re going to be looking at some weapon offences at the very least, but we’ll have to give it some time to get to the bottom of it.”

Weapon offences? Wha? Criminal possession of Megatron?

Mason said the response level was reasonable...

Oh yes, very reasonable. Tactical officers, body armour, submachine guns, sniper rifles, a police dog and the mobile command centre.

Nobody knew it was a toy after the fact THREE HOURS LATER. I don't blame the police .I blame assholes like this who are the reason G1 Megatron is illegal in the first place.

As a parent, I can understand people's concern about their children. As a TF fan who tends to be angry most of the time, I reckon I can understand both sides of the story a bit better. Hell I've pointed gun mode Megs at people before...course it was Classics Megs and I doubt most people would mistake it for a real gun...

That's just crazy, I mean you hear these police departments constantly bitching about how "oh we're so understaffed and underfunded" but then "OH Holy crap! There's a guy waving A SINGLE GUN out the window! Quick, let's get SWAT, Snipers, Dogs, hell call out the National Guard for ONE GUY WITH A GUN!"

Puh-fraggin-leez. Okay I can understand maybe going in with a couple of cops in body armor and a shield or something, if the guy does start shooting, but whatever happened to calm negotation? Like : "Sir, please throw the gun down and lay on your belly."

They see the gun, its got a little robot face on it.

Charge the dork with maybe a misdemenor for waving a weapon in a threatening manner. But c'mon really, SWAT?

Things like that make me think we're just turning into a police state.

Oh boy... That's not the first time this has happened. It's funny, but at the same time it's not. Soon it will be illegal to own ANY transformers because they're violent or look like weapons. Come on.... Send a small squad of police to investigate before you blow it out of proportion.

That's some funny s*** right there.

GadgetMeli9685 wrote:Oh boy... That's not the first time this has happened. It's funny, but at the same time it's not. Soon it will be illegal to own ANY transformers because they're violent or look like weapons. Come on.... Send a small squad of police to investigate before you blow it out of proportion.

Sending a small squad or single patrol sounds like a good idea, but if this had been a person with a real weapon and the desire to use it, that is how you end up with dead police officers.

Does it seem like overkill? Yes, but it is the better way to respond to a call of this nature when they don't fully know the threat level they will be facing.

As far as the idea of it being G2 megs instead, I would submit if it was transmetal Beast Megs instead.

Great, this will lead to more bannings of G1 & Masterpiece Megatrons? What an idiot.

Good thing I already have my Megatrons.

Seems like the Police went a little overboard, but I suppose they can't take any chances. That's how tragedies like school shootings happen, people don't take stuff seriously.

They recently arrested a high school student here who posted threats and a 'hit list' on Facebook. They raided his home and seized a bunch of weapons, and now he's getting a psychiatric evaluation in custody. It's good that people reported him and the Police reacted as such.

On the other hand, we also have the ongoing Taser controversy surrounding the death of Robert Dziekanski, where the Police obviously used much more force than necessary.

But with this guy and his Megatron, it's not like they had to physically take him down, so they were really only being cautious in case he actually had a real weapon, as they should be.

So either this guy's a total moron, threatening people with a toy, or he was just playing with it, and has dumb paranoid neighbors who can't tell the difference between a real gun and a toy. And now there will be public outcry for stiffer regulations on toys, and collectors will lose out.

Unfortunately the police response was completely appropriate. We can Monday morning quarterback it all we want, but they didn't know the gun was not real till later.

I say unfortunately, because the knee-jerk reaction of moron politicians will be more useless laws that would not have prevented this sort of thing anyway.

What's depressing is that, when they find Megs, he's going to rot in an evidence locker somewhere as opposed to being proudly displayed in someone's collection.

I wonder if he'll pop up at police auction somewhere?

I really have to disagree with those of you saying the police responded appropriately. Like NickRyder said, this is the sort of thing that makes people feel like they're living in a police state. Their reaction was ridiculous, especially considering they didn't even know if he had a gun or not. This wasn't at a school or a public place, the appropriate response would have been to send a small squad and attempt negotiations over a loud speaker, that way the police are not directly engaging the man and there is no danger to them.

NickRyder wrote:That's just crazy, I mean you hear these police departments constantly bitching about how "oh we're so understaffed and underfunded" but then "OH Holy crap! There's a guy waving A SINGLE GUN out the window! Quick, let's get SWAT, Snipers, Dogs, hell call out the National Guard for ONE GUY WITH A GUN!"

Puh-fraggin-leez. Okay I can understand maybe going in with a couple of cops in body armor and a shield or something, if the guy does start shooting, but whatever happened to calm negotation? Like : "Sir, please throw the gun down and lay on your belly."

They see the gun, its got a little robot face on it.

Charge the dork with maybe a misdemenor for waving a weapon in a threatening manner. But c'mon really, SWAT?

Things like that make me think we're just turning into a police state.

That percieved "single gun" in the right hands could take out anywhere from 6 to 15 people depending on type and capacity. And, from a distance and depending on wear, you CANT see a robot face. It is the job of the police to protect the safety of the community and this a**hole, from all OUTWARD appearances, was a threat and they responded appropriately.
As for negotiation, that IS part of standard procedure. They would not have taken extreme action unless negotiation failed or there were other occupants in the home they felt were in immediate mortal danger. Considering that there was a recent home invasion (and apparently brutal) and the man was upset about his treatment afterward, I'm willing to place a highly educated guess that this guy was not an upstanding member of the community. This would also offer further explanation as to the show of force. It sounds more to me like this guy was "Taxed" and instead of taking it like a man, bitched about it to the police, which in his case would have been pointless. All that combined with his "off the deep end" stunt lead me to suspect drug use, most likely Meth.
That a tweeker would tarnish the reputation of Megatron pisses me off that much more. I can't say that my guess is right but I know enough behind the scenes aspects of both sides (police and bad-guys) to say that, when and if the whole story comes out I probably won't be far off.
Still Sucks that a Transformer got caught in the middle of all this. Poor innocent pawn...

He had plenty of time. He could have transformed him and put him on display and let the coppers search the place all they want.

it was only matter of time just not the situation i expected to happen to be in i expected some IDIOT & i use the word strongly idiot to use g1 megatron to use as weapone in store to steal money i was waiting for this sort of thing to happen when the first movie got released or before it but just not this late of the years.

im not megatron g1 fan so im not that concered about but if anyone decides to make master piece megatron illge to be shipped in the us ill be pissed i mean master piece megatron isnt even accuate to be gun at all its 3 times the size or an original real gun pistal & if poeple cant tell teh differnce between the mp megatron from a real gun then poeple are more stupid than they appear to be.

but for any megatron g1 fans here on this site sorry to here about the bad news you know the NEWS is going to make a BIG deadl about this once they hold of this information & becasue of the news they just may banned g1 megatron all togeather even mp verion in the states.

stupid news make big deal about every little dumb thing they report even old news oj simpson, m jackson, lets get everyone crazy in the year 1999 everyone stock up all the electronical devices on this plant are going down for a year its Y2K start stocking up or suffer, dont get me statred aboutthe news with there weather forcasts.

T-Macksimus wrote:

NickRyder wrote:That's just crazy, I mean you hear these police departments constantly bitching about how "oh we're so understaffed and underfunded" but then "OH Holy crap! There's a guy waving A SINGLE GUN out the window! Quick, let's get SWAT, Snipers, Dogs, hell call out the National Guard for ONE GUY WITH A GUN!"

Puh-fraggin-leez. Okay I can understand maybe going in with a couple of cops in body armor and a shield or something, if the guy does start shooting, but whatever happened to calm negotation? Like : "Sir, please throw the gun down and lay on your belly."

They see the gun, its got a little robot face on it.

Charge the dork with maybe a misdemenor for waving a weapon in a threatening manner. But c'mon really, SWAT?

Things like that make me think we're just turning into a police state.

That percieved "single gun" in the right hands could take out anywhere from 6 to 15 people depending on type and capacity. And, from a distance and depending on wear, you CANT see a robot face. It is the job of the police to protect the safety of the community and this a**hole, from all OUTWARD appearances, was a threat and they responded appropriately.
As for negotiation, that IS part of standard procedure. They would not have taken extreme action unless negotiation failed or there were other occupants in the home they felt were in immediate mortal danger. Considering that there was a recent home invasion (and apparently brutal) and the man was upset about his treatment afterward, I'm willing to place a highly educated guess that this guy was not an upstanding member of the community. This would also offer further explanation as to the show of force. It sounds more to me like this guy was "Taxed" and instead of taking it like a man, bitched about it to the police, which in his case would have been pointless. All that combined with his "off the deep end" stunt lead me to suspect drug use, most likely Meth.
That a tweeker would tarnish the reputation of Megatron pisses me off that much more. I can't say that my guess is right but I know enough behind the scenes aspects of both sides (police and bad-guys) to say that, when and if the whole story comes out I probably won't be far off.
Still Sucks that a Transformer got caught in the middle of all this. Poor innocent pawn...

I could not agree with you more about Megs being a pawn in this guy's pathetic charade. But I am a G1 Megatron fan, a gun enthusiast and I used to have a problem with Crystal Meth and I never took it out on my Transformers, this guy should be shot with Megatron pellets repeatedly. Honestly, he should be ashamed.

Wow, so I am assuming the cops confiscated the G1 Megatron, and if every one thought it was the real thing, then the toy must have been in good condition (unlike so many of his 80’s brothers). So like really, any fines they give him for his misdemeanors for threatening with a (fake) weapon & disturbing the peace is going to be nothing compared to the cost of replacing his Megatron.

Although living in Ontario, the only reason for the body armor, the shields, the snipers rifles, the submachine guns, the tanks, the satellite surveillance, and the aerial strike, etc. IT is because this kind of stuff almost never happens (with the exception of Toronto). I think the cops got the emergency info from 911, and got excited because they finally got to use their all their big toys.

Lets face it, 4 snipers at full range of their guns, each one covering 1 side of the house, plus 2 other officers in full armor & shields to negotiate with the man, and some additional officers quarantining the area for public safety was all that was needed. And just have everybody else on stand by incase it escalates.

Oh well boys & thier toys.

This story pisses me off and this dumbass deserves any thing he gets!

What an idiot!

This wouldn't even be news in Texas.

At least it was in Canada, If it was in the States we would have all kinds of 'my sh!t don't stink' twerps running around demanding new gun control laws and mandatory penalties for infractions like this...

I bet a million dollars that if that town had a concealed carry law, this dingleberry wouldn't have even opened his toy box to dig it out. He'd be scared stupid thinking that somebody else would shoot him first in self defense.

As a reformed thief, there was nothing I loved more then stores that had the 'no guns allowed' signs. No resistance at all, just a bunch of pissed off cowards wishing they had a way to defend themselves now, instead of waiting for the police to show up whenever they felt like it.

GUN CONTROL LAWS are obeyed by the victims, they don't slow down the criminals. Hell, I knew a guy that sold ak-47's out of the trunk of his car.

A question for all of you out there who think i'm a nut...

Would you consider committing a crime, any crime, if there was a chance that 50% of the people in eyesight had a gun and was allowed to use it in self defense?

Rape, Robbery, Assault... Any violent crime you can think of is committed because the wielder of the gun has power over those that are unarmed.

[Yes, if you used your weapon in self defense and caused injury to the perpetrator you would be cited to appear before a judge to plead your self-defense case.]

After purchasing my Masterpiece Megatron at BotCon - I had difficulty bringing him home. They wouldn't let me take him as carry on luggage on the Airplane! I left him in the box, never opened it , he was in robot mode and everything! I was stopped at security, they scratched their heads - pulled me aside. Opened his box, took Megatron out - I was like, he's in robot mode - it's a toy.

They said - WHILE POINTING AT THE PICTURE OF HIS GUN FORM ON THE BOX (I kid you not) "But it turns into a gun! and it's way too realistic." I guess they thought I was going to transform Megatron and hijack the plane or some slag ... jeeze oh f'ing pete! I'm not whacky like this tool-shed guy.

Eh - I had to take MP Megatron back to the checked baggage counter and turn him into checked baggage. I was escorted by security and everything - it was embarrassing. Like I'm some kind of terrorist criminal or something for having a toy! I guess that's what I get for aligning with the Decepticons ... heh heh.

My point - it's ppl like this that have ruined the production and "fun" toys like Megatron. You see that the press isn't blaming the whack-o guy so much as they are laying blame on the Megatron gun figure? That sucks - It is the insane idiot not the toy who is the problem! When will these sheep ever get that?! I swear!

To think, 90% of the people who commented on here probably complained that the Classics Megatron wasn't GEEWUN enough.

Yet, had he tried to be a "crazed gunman" with that, nobody would take it as a threat. After all, it's only a Nerf/water pistol/film prop. Police time would not have been wasted, and we'd all be none the wiser for it.

Aheheh.

hold on a sec, they broke out an entire SWAT team to deal with a guy who had a small pistol? Yeah i guess they had nothing better to do. In order to get SWAT to come around out here you need to have at least a Shotgun and a few hostages. This is pathetic for both the asshole with the "gun" and the police for acting this way. And if your going to try and scare some one with a gun dont use Megatron. Use a BB gun or some thing. First off the BB gun looks real as real can get and it more effective cause it actually shoots. Now getting a G1 Megs is going to be even harder and we'll nevr see another Megatron with a gun mode again. Thanks dipshit.

megatron told him to do it. "GEMMIE THE ENERGON AND NO ONE GETS HURT!"

Crap! I gotta order my Masterpiece Megatron before that shit's illegal! *runs off to amazon.com*

Forgotten wrote:I could not agree with you more about Megs being a pawn in this guy's pathetic charade. But I am a G1 Megatron fan, a gun enthusiast and I used to have a problem with Crystal Meth and I never took it out on my Transformers, this guy should be shot with Megatron pellets repeatedly. Honestly, he should be ashamed.

Having been part of that scene (Congrats on getting out, that's not an easy thing to do. Your strength is commendable) you can see how I put 2 & 2 together though so could probaly say whether I may or may not be off base.
Yeah, this whole situation, however it all plays out in the long run is just a shame. These are stressful times and people everywhere are losing it over what seem to be the smallest of things. We just had a cold blooded assassination of a Loomis guard over less than $100k in my neck of the woods just 2 days ago.
Single shot to the head and the bullet struck the man behind the guard in the shoulder on it's way out. The mans 15 month old son was leaning across the opposite shoulder.
The span of about a foot, just a slight change in trajectory, could have taken out 2 lives with one bullet so I don't fault the police anywhere in the world for how they react to situations like this. Unfortunately, once people have broken down mentally, whether through drug use or for other reasons, all variables and consquences are out the window and it's just them at that specific moment in time and the rest of reality becomes white noise.
While I know my way around firearms, I no longer own one (although I miss my Mossberg 500) and instead have only martial arts weapons which require a fair amount of skill and concious control to use without hurting ones-self. That's for everyone elses safety as well as my own. If I go off the deep-end (not likely but who's to say) my choices are Universe Megatron with his orange tip and purple handle, or a variety of swords, tonfas or nunchaku. All of which allow the police to get within taser range of me. If you gotta go bonkers, at least try to do it responsibly. Of course, I also have that stuff so that, on the off chance someone breaks in at night, I can take someone out without waking up the neighbors with a gunshot. That's just common courtesy.

And I totally support your final point Darkhawkk01. Every gun related crime had one common defect, regardless of make and model, toy or real, and that was...the Nut behind the trigger!

Is it worrying that im the only one that thought 'Hmm, arent police Snipers trained to shoot weapons out of suspects hands......omg theyre gonna ruin a perfectly good Megs!'

I have one thing really to say....


This story pathetic! Its funny for the same reason its so sad, The police went alittle overboard on the attack force. It's more than likely that the guy peed himself once he saw all the firepower aimed at him


Poor Megatron just a pawn in some idiots game as stated above he's just gonna rot in some police evidence locker for several years...

It's sad this happens, but I (regrettably) have nothing I can say.And that;s not for a lack of trying, but it's the era that I gro up in. I can say that these laws are annoying. those of us who have grown up with these types of laws and responses, and are thus for unaware of the times when one could carry knives as tools and people weren't fearful of things that went boom. Ah well.

That said, while I agree that was too much forcem the police were right to respond equipped.

Mind you, though the neighbors probably couldn' see the insignea on the side, I can almost guarentee that the second he walked in front of a sniper's scope, they could count all the little flake l;ines of the chrome. I bet ya.

The news is funny sometimes, ain't it?

Anyone who uses a toy gun to mess with the police deserves anything that happens to him.

T-Macksimus wrote:

Forgotten wrote:I could not agree with you more about Megs being a pawn in this guy's pathetic charade. But I am a G1 Megatron fan, a gun enthusiast and I used to have a problem with Crystal Meth and I never took it out on my Transformers, this guy should be shot with Megatron pellets repeatedly. Honestly, he should be ashamed.

Having been part of that scene (Congrats on getting out, that's not an easy thing to do. Your strength is commendable) you can see how I put 2 & 2 together though so could probaly say whether I may or may not be off base.
Yeah, this whole situation, however it all plays out in the long run is just a shame. These are stressful times and people everywhere are losing it over what seem to be the smallest of things. We just had a cold blooded assassination of a Loomis guard over less than $100k in my neck of the woods just 2 days ago.
Single shot to the head and the bullet struck the man behind the guard in the shoulder on it's way out. The mans 15 month old son was leaning across the opposite shoulder.
The span of about a foot, just a slight change in trajectory, could have taken out 2 lives with one bullet so I don't fault the police anywhere in the world for how they react to situations like this. Unfortunately, once people have broken down mentally, whether through drug use or for other reasons, all variables and consquences are out the window and it's just them at that specific moment in time and the rest of reality becomes white noise.
While I know my way around firearms, I no longer own one (although I miss my Mossberg 500) and instead have only martial arts weapons which require a fair amount of skill and concious control to use without hurting ones-self. That's for everyone elses safety as well as my own. If I go off the deep-end (not likely but who's to say) my choices are Universe Megatron with his orange tip and purple handle, or a variety of swords, tonfas or nunchaku. All of which allow the police to get within taser range of me. If you gotta go bonkers, at least try to do it responsibly. Of course, I also have that stuff so that, on the off chance someone breaks in at night, I can take someone out without waking up the neighbors with a gunshot. That's just common courtesy.

And I totally support your final point Darkhawkk01. Every gun related crime had one common defect, regardless of make and model, toy or real, and that was...the Nut behind the trigger!

Thanks a lot T-Macks I believe that transformers are a lot of the reason I was able to get out of all that crap. I just traded one addiction for another.

This is why we'll never get an official U.S. rerelease of G1 Megatron (as well as a U.S. release of Masterpiece Megatron).

That guy is out of his mind, using Megatron as a weapon. Stupid! Stupid! STUPID!

Well, to be honest, I really wouldn't want a reissue of G1 Megatron. I'd much rather have a more show-accurate version of the character. Something like a RobotMasters version of the figure (and not that Reverse Convoy). The Masterpiece figure is accurate, but it's too big and too complex, and too fragile. What we need is something with an in-scale, show-accurate Robot Mode, and fully transformable into a show-accurate gun mode (even though it's never gonna happen).

Now that I think of it, we wouldn't even have this problem in the first place if they hadn't used the Microman MC13 Gun Robo - P38 U.N.C.L.E. figure for his toy. Why oh why did he even have to be a gun in the first place? He hardly ever transformed out of Robot Mode in the cartoon. His gun form wasn't always needed. They could've used any other figure from Diaclone or Microman/Microchange, and yet they had to go with one of those that we can never get again! This is just so bogus!

this is why hasbro wont sell a g1 megatron toy in the USA
because of people like that is why toy gun laws exist

I think the responce was justified. You cannot be too careful when guns are involved. I own G1 Megs, MP Megs and and old plastic BB gun. I would never dream of taking them outside or waving them at people out the window. Its simply common sense.

thanks dude for ruining it even more for G1 and MP Megatron toy fans.

T-Macksimus wrote:Considering that there was a recent home invasion (and apparently brutal) and the man was upset about his treatment afterward, I'm willing to place a highly educated guess that this guy was not an upstanding member of the community. This would also offer further explanation as to the show of force. It sounds more to me like this guy was "Taxed" and instead of taking it like a man, bitched about it to the police, which in his case would have been pointless. All that combined with his "off the deep end" stunt lead me to suspect drug use, most likely Meth.

That's a lot of assumptions you're making about a situation you have very little information on.

Phenotype wrote:

T-Macksimus wrote:Considering that there was a recent home invasion (and apparently brutal) and the man was upset about his treatment afterward, I'm willing to place a highly educated guess that this guy was not an upstanding member of the community. This would also offer further explanation as to the show of force. It sounds more to me like this guy was "Taxed" and instead of taking it like a man, bitched about it to the police, which in his case would have been pointless. All that combined with his "off the deep end" stunt lead me to suspect drug use, most likely Meth.

That's a lot of assumptions you're making about a situation you have very little information on.

None of it was ever intended to be presented as fact. Yeah it's a lot of assumption and words like "guess" and "suspect" and the entire context of both my posts did pretty much make that clear. One thing in my favor is that I have been dealing with enough individuals like this froot-loop over the past three years to spot them pretty damn fast knowing very little. It sucks and there are times I wish I didn't know what I know or could erase some of the bizarre sh** I've seen, but I cant. (and believe me, this stunt with Megatron is mild)
I'm not an expert, not a cop, not a psychologist. I'm just a guy with the right set of skills and the right tools for the job to go into bad places and pull people out of the depths or occasionally recover stolen property for folks. I've seen people lose it like this guy and I've also helped people get their lives back on track.

I honestly hope I'm wrong about this guy, I really do. For his sake and his familys sake I hope this is just something that can be worked through with Prozac, counseling and support of loved ones. And if I am totally wrong about his situation, let me know and I'll post it in big letters all over this thread and be happy about it. Sadly though, I keep finding more and more folks leaving me wishing I had been wrong.

Where is the lighter side of this? I know of a few stories while old still had one ups on this. I know of one particular one where a burgler was scared off by a woman that aimed G1 Megatron at him and told him to get out or she would shoot. Granted it was probably dark and the invader probably couldn't tell it was a toy but still it worked.

That is priceless! Those are the kinds of stories we need more of.
"Megatron and Grandma tag-team an intruder"

You know, Megatron + pen laser + burgular = wet spot on carpet

Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember a Marvel TF story involving a guy that found Megatron laying on the ground after Megatron was defeated by the Dinobots. He took up the gun, found out it was a robot and that it possessed power beyond standard firearms and began a life of crime as a result. Maybe, Megs was doing the same thing with this poor fella. Personally, I can't count how many times my God Ginrai has told me to go into the kitchen and fix him a sandwich with marshmallows, pickles, mayo, and sardines.

NostagiBot wrote:Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember a Marvel TF story involving a guy that found Megatron laying on the ground after Megatron was defeated by the Dinobots. He took up the gun, found out it was a robot and that it possessed power beyond standard firearms and began a life of crime as a result. Maybe, Megs was doing the same thing with this poor fella. Personally, I can't count how many times my God Ginrai has told me to go into the kitchen and fix him a sandwich with marshmallows, pickles, mayo, and sardines.

If I remember correctly, the guy in the Marve continuity was already mixed up in something shady before he found Megatron.
I think the results of his prior actions led to the situation where he found Megs.

Marshmallows with sardines??? I think your Ginrai has issues.

You refer to one of very few humans who has ever earned the respect of Megatron.

Criticize the actions of one Joey Slick at your own peril.

But to look at things seriously, he was a good guy stuck in a bad situation due to bad decisions he had made and found himself working for someone worse than himself, then upon finding the means to power, got greedy.

That said even with the power to kill, he choose not to, and even in confronting thae man who had made his life bad, choose to fight with his hands than employ Megatron. Plus when faced with death once Megatron regained control, still found the will to stand against Megs, and allowed himself to be arrest to pay for his crimes.

That issue was, and continues to be one of my favorite comic stories, and I wish we had seen more of the character.